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History & Targets - Mērķi & Lithuanians
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tolik



Joined: 06 Sep 2005
Posts: 54
Location: Riga, Latvia

PostPosted: Sun Feb 05, 2006 2:18 pm    Post subject: History & Targets - Mērķi & Lithuanians

Latvia is a small country and finally game development community started to evolve.

Indago is here for 2 years.

Lithanian guys have almost finished their big-sized strategy project ( http://www.wireframedreams.com/index_en.php ).
First lithuanian gamejam happened almost 4 years ago (http://jammy.sourceforge.net/) !
Just look at the list of Lithuanian projects - http://gamedev.kobra.ktu.lt/kiti/links.html and number/quality of released games: http://www.gamedev.lt/

Why are they so speedy? Are they organized?

The answer is - yes. Lithuania had several game development companies working on consoles (PlayStation, GBA), solid demo-sceners (nesnausk) that evolved into around-game developers and community pushers. Some people out of them worked in latvian game development company - they understood complexity+processes and started their own project.

Is there anything like that in Latvia? Well, as I've mentioned, there was latvian game development company in early 2000. Only 1 guy from it's late times is involved in CG community, while another 3D artist from there contributed to "Sala".

All of the guys who were in commercial game dev left the scene, latvian demoscene crashed after PHAT2.

There are no pushers that could propose targets for community. Free-style evolution doesn't move it anywhere BUT "united independent" doesn't also work out.

Dead CS (computer science) universities push their students into financial companies from the very beginning as they are paid by these companies to do so.

Atari/Spectrum, Dendy/Zhiliton/UFO/Hitex (NES) generation grew up and already became attached to the financial/web/whatever-but-nogames companies - only counted ones are still there.


Some Indago members see their games just as a single hobby project, not as the way to enter real game development and earn money.

Please, check http://www.igf.com/
Please, check http://www.igf.com/2006entrants.shtml

Check out the success stories and understand that game contests are a way to the next level. Don't drop it, it's not just for fun.

One of the things that a lot of people haven't understood on Xbox show was that a lot of the games were done by small teams and they became successfull commercial projects.

You should understand that "SHAREWARE" games have evolved into "DOWNLOADABLE" games that cost money and sell well. The better the game is, the more you could push by creating a site and selling it on-line.

NOBODY is limiting your creativity when you are developing YOUR game - if it's just for youself. If you want to enter next level, think about audience who wants your game. Don't think about Latvia as the target for your games distribution.

One of the sides of Indago is that people were competing with each other and there were almost no complete games - no matter who won (remember all the chats about subjective voting).

Were people competing for first place to get that sum? If so, such sum could be earned in a week by a mediocre downloadable game that sells from your own site without ANY THIRD PARTY.


The real competition starts when you've got a fully polished game and you could promote it and push into huge portals like Microsoft Zone - that's where casual games come in.


Enough of mindless mumbling, let me ask you some questions.


What's the target of Indago?

Is it about national game development?

Is it to gather local people who are developing games? Then, why are these people stop not submit their games to various free game sites to get more attention? Do they care about outside world at all?

Is the participance a way to prove that you could develop a game or it's something bigger?

Do you want to go to the next level?

I would like to hear some thoughts from you guys.
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loud



Joined: 01 Jan 2006
Posts: 38
Location: Latvia, Sigulda

PostPosted: Sun Feb 05, 2006 2:22 pm    Post subject:

why english? Very Happy Confused
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Kamazs
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Joined: 17 Jan 2003
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PostPosted: Sun Feb 05, 2006 2:54 pm    Post subject:

Tāpēc, ka viņam latviešu valodā būtu grūtāk to pateikt.

Labs posts, beidzot arī kaut kas tāds šajā forumā parādās. Var piekrist, nepiekrist, bet daudzas domas ir korektas un vismaz apdomājamas.

And OK, here are my thoughts on the matter. I think Indago is great where it is and what it is. It has brought positive influence to gameDEV community in Latvia, I mean, it actually creates some community and gives beginners some real target to work for. Sure, the prize is not great, but with it you get all the attention of Latvian gamers, the recognition, not talking about experience and completed product.

The Indago should stay Indago. It's has simple concept -- if you have game ready, share with it and you may get recognized, you may win the prize. If there is no Indago, there is no point in developing games for some. And its bad thing for progress of industry. OK, maybe Indago competitors yet are not ready to grow into profitable titles. But it's start and as we all know, everything starts with little.

Indago should stay as it is -- Latvian game contest. But other international contests should be advertised here as well, because its a way to .. the "next level" -- international recognition and prizes.
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tolik



Joined: 06 Sep 2005
Posts: 54
Location: Riga, Latvia

PostPosted: Sun Feb 05, 2006 3:48 pm    Post subject:

Thanks for your input, Kamazs.
Good phrase here - "all the attention of Latvian gamers".
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bypass.u
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PostPosted: Sun Feb 05, 2006 4:10 pm    Post subject: Re: History & Targets - Mērķi & Lithuanians

Quote:
INDAGO mērķis ir apzināt Latvijā tos cilvēkus, kas būtu spējīgi, mērķtiecīgi un griboši strādāt šajā grūtajā, bet ne mazāk interesantajā jomā. Šī ir iespēja ikvienam potenciālajam izstrādātājam parādīt savu darbu plašākai publikai, kā arī konkurences apstākļos nostiprināt savas prasmes tiem, kas piedalījušies pagājušā gada konkursā. Nedaudz globālākā skatījumā, mēs, ar šī konkursa starpniecību, ceram veicināt vispārēju Latvijas datorspēļu vides izaugsmi, kas gan radītu veselīgu konkurenci izstrādātāju starpā, gan palīdzētu un motivētu ikvienu turpināt iesākto ceļu.

And that's it.

Quote:
Is the participance a way to prove that you could develop a game or it's something bigger?

Basically each participant had it's own reasons.

I had made a bunch of small experimental games in past for fun and hence I wanted to finish one just to be sure i can actually do it. (now i know - i can).
On top of that, i had a lot of fun and that's very important for me.
Yet the price tag was to insignificant to be a goal.

Quote:
Then, why are these people stop not submit their games to various free game sites to get more attention?

First of all, THEEP lacks in graphics, level design, has some glitches and still misses a few gameplay elements. Needs improvement before i'd liked to show it off to general public, but i don't want to waste any more time on a historic game.

Although some old-school gamers could appreciate it(e.g. fans of blackthrone, abuse, anotherworld, metroid, etc.).

...

Now i'm making the next step.
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savage



Joined: 19 Aug 2005
Posts: 31
Location: Riga,LV

PostPosted: Sun Feb 05, 2006 4:59 pm    Post subject:

Kas eulynx tads vispar ir, sakuma man likas ka vinjs ir robots
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Lāčblēdis



Joined: 16 Jan 2005
Posts: 113

PostPosted: Sun Feb 05, 2006 8:02 pm    Post subject:

Kaut kāds ārzemnieks.
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Olby
Indago dalībnieks
Indago dalībnieks


Joined: 19 Apr 2004
Posts: 230

PostPosted: Sun Feb 05, 2006 8:04 pm    Post subject:

Manuprāt tas ir Anatolijs Ropotovs no I2005 noslēguma, jo viņam bija grūti runāt latviski, laikam nolēma padalīties savās domās par LV GameDEV!

Last edited by Olby on Fri Mar 17, 2006 4:39 pm; edited 1 time in total
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Kamazs
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PostPosted: Sun Feb 05, 2006 8:31 pm    Post subject:

Man nekad nav bijis skaidrs, kamdēļ cilvēki posto forumos bullšitu tur, kur varētu attīstīt produktīvas diskusijas.
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tolik



Joined: 06 Sep 2005
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Location: Riga, Latvia

PostPosted: Sun Feb 05, 2006 8:36 pm    Post subject:

Lūdzu pārtulkojiet manu rakstu, jo tagad būs visadi offtopic jautajumi... Es zinu, ka bypass.u var to izdarīt Smile
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GiGa
Indago Uzvarētājs
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Joined: 25 Sep 2003
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PostPosted: Sun Feb 05, 2006 9:40 pm    Post subject:

Ok, ja jau angliski tad angliski :)

My opinion on this whole matter is - everything is going just as it should, so far.

I don't think we should look at Indago as some big force in the Latvian gamedev, becouse it is never going to be, at least in the foreseeable future. It will not provide the incentive to create commercial grade games, as the benefits from winning Indago are not big enough. People who can and would create games that good, will do it, Indago or no Indago.

Having said that, I dont think Indago is a worthless event - it does create an incentive and provides a great way for smaller games to get made and noticed, and it also is great fun to participate in events like that, even better if there is some prize, and I am all for organising Indago this year, and the next few years.

But I don't think it will play a noticable role in "taking the next step", as you put it, so I think Indago should be left out of all the conversations concerning why haven't we taken the next step yet, and when will we.

Now, about taking the next step. I think you will agree, that setting out to actually make a commercial game (even a small shareware game) is a huge step, even more so, if you plan on that being your main source of income. And things like that shouldnt be rushed. No, they should be planned out carefully and you should create many smaller games just for practice before doing that. And thats what, I think, we have seen in Indago. Some of the games seem to suggest that their creators have come close to the point where they could try "to take the next step" and I've no doubt thats what we will see this year.

Another reason, why things dont move as fast as we would like them to, is our "day jobs". I mean, all of us have to do stuff for school, studies or work and that can take a lot of time. To concentrate on developing a real game would mean, in my opinion, to put those things on hold - this isn't easy to do. I mean it's quite impossible to work hard on a game when you have already spent 8 (or more, as I know some here have more than one job) hours working in the office & all you want to do now is to relax with your friends and family.

Another possibility would be to quit our day jobs & work full time on our games, as the Lithuanian company seems to have done, but are we ready to do that? Are we that confident in our skills & luck, that we can say for sure that an undertaking like that wont end bad? I mean, there are many examples of young start up teams failing. Are we ready to risk our financial security like that?

That, I think, is a key factor. I think we have enough talent here on all fronts - programming, art, design, etc, but the financial risks are stopping them from really concentrating on real game development, as it is much more secure to work for some software company as a coder or an artist in some non-game related media. I mean, if I knew for sure I could support a lifestyle atleast as good as I have now by making games for a living, I would go all for it, no questions asked. Who here wouldnt?

Im sure all of this will happen in good time as I dont see a reason why should one specific country fail to produce atleast some form of a commercial gamedev industry Smile But these things take time, effort and devotion.

We are moving in the right direction though, I think.
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PostPosted: Sun Feb 05, 2006 10:36 pm    Post subject: Re: History & Targets - Mērķi & Lithuanians

Quote:
Lūdzu pārtulkojiet manu rakstu, jo tagad būs visadi offtopic jautajumi... Es zinu, ka bypass.u var to izdarīt.

Īsumā: emuLynx izklāstīja savu viedokli par spēļizstrādi Latvijā, lietuviešu spēļizstrādi, nedaudz par tās vēsturi, kā arī gribēja dzirdēt cilvēku domas par sekojošajiem jautājumiem:

Kāds ir indago mērķis?

Vai tas ir par valsts spēļizstrādi?

Vai arī tas ir domāts, lai savāktu, atpazītu vietējos cilvēkus, kas izstrādā spēles?
Tad kādēļ šie cilvēki neizplata savas spēles brīvo spēļu lapās, lai iegūtu vairāk uzmanības? Vai viņi vispār uztraucas par ārpasauli?

Vai piedalīšanās ir veids kā pierādīt, ka tu vari izstrādāt spēli vai tas ir kas vairāk?

Vai tu vēlies pāriet uz nākošo līmeni?

---
Ja kādam tiešām nepieciešams, varu iztulkot pilnībā. Bet kurš te nezin angļu valodu?
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Christfuck
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PostPosted: Fri Mar 17, 2006 3:08 pm    Post subject:

My opinion is the same as for Giga, we are afraid....

But i have always said dont say the Latvians cant... We can, just most of our time we dont help each other, but we are looking for mistakes in each other works. Just if we could come all together, and talk, maybe we could show for others, that we can make some good projects, not only some demo stuff, just for fun, but real games.

I trust that this year's Indago will change something in Latvian game development, I really hope so...
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AnetiX
Indago Uzvarētājs
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Joined: 05 Jun 2003
Posts: 573

PostPosted: Fri Mar 17, 2006 3:23 pm    Post subject:

Christfuck wrote:
Just if we could come all together, and talk, maybe we could show for others, that we can make some good projects, not only some demo stuff, just for fun, but real games.

YO!! Taisam gamedev tusu!! :P
Kāpēc man ir tāda vāja nojauta, ka gamedeva tuss varētu būt tāds, kas varētu beigties ar kautiņu dēļ tēmas "kuram garāks" ?
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Olby
Indago dalībnieks
Indago dalībnieks


Joined: 19 Apr 2004
Posts: 230

PostPosted: Fri Mar 17, 2006 4:41 pm    Post subject:

Quote:
Kāpēc man ir tāda vāja nojauta, ka gamedeva tuss varētu būt tāds, kas varētu beigties ar kautiņu dēļ tēmas "kuram garāks" ?

Bļe tad gan būtu jautri, hehe kuram garāks! Wink
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